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    <title>Webmonkey &#187; Google Groups</title>
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        <title>Google Groups Fail: JQuery Dumps Google Over Spam, Interface Problems</title>
        <link>http://www.webmonkey.com/2009/10/google_groups_fail_spam__poor_ui_drive/</link>
        <comments>http://www.webmonkey.com/2009/10/google_groups_fail_spam__poor_ui_drive/#comments</comments>
        <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:45:59 +0000</pubDate>

                <dc:creator>Scott Gilbertson</dc:creator>

        <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/googlegroupsfailjqueryabandonsgoogleoverspaminterfaceproblems</guid>
        		<category><![CDATA[UI/UX]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web Services]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Groups]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jQuery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spam]]></category>
        <description><![CDATA[Much of Google&#8217;s success rests on the fact that the words &#8220;Google&#8221; and &#8220;suck&#8221; rarely appear in the same sentence. There is one notable exception: Google Groups, which lately has started to look more and more like an abandoned service. The mailing-list and discussion-board service has remained short on features since Google launched it in [...]]]></description>

            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- wpautop enabled --><img class="blogimg" src="http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/epicenter/2009/10/googlegroups_logo.gif" />Much of Google&#8217;s success rests on the fact that the words &#8220;Google&#8221; and &#8220;suck&#8221; rarely appear in the same sentence.</p>
<p>There is one notable exception: Google Groups, which lately has started to look more and more like an abandoned service. The mailing-list and discussion-board service has remained short on features since Google launched it in 2001. Meanwhile, Groups has become overwhelmed with spam, and one the most popular Google Groups &#8212; the <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en">JQuery mailing list</a>, with more than 20,000 members &#8212; is jumping ship.</p>
<p>John Resig, the lead developer of JQuery, a popular JavaScript Library for developing complex web applications, recently posted a <a href="http://ejohn.org/blog/google-groups-is-dead/">sharply critical look at Google Groups</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;As far as I&#8217;m concerned, Google Groups is dead,&#8221; he writes.</p>
<p>Resig isn&#8217;t the only one with problems. Google Groups began life as a way to rescue the Deja.com Usenet archive, but as our Epicenter blog recently reported, <a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/10/usenet/">the Usenet portion of Google Groups is fundamentally broken</a>. Google has since <a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/10/usenet_fix/">addressed some problems</a> highlighted in that piece, but even newly created groups, like the JQuery group, feel neglected and overrun with spam.</p>
<p>While Resig is careful to note that Google Groups remains a workable optionfor private mailing lists, but for large public mailing lists like JQuery, Google Groups&#8217; inability to combat spam, its poor moderator tools and general neglect have made the platform unusable.</p>
<p>&#8220;The problem mostly lies in the use cases that we&#8217;re trying to support,&#8221; Resig says in an e-mail to Webmonkey. &#8220;We need to support people who are actively trying to help new users, and we also need to support people who just want a simple question answered.&#8221; Spam, awkward filtering tools and a lack of support have driven JQuery to look elsewhere for a platform that connects its users, he says.</p>
<p>From an end-user point of view, the problem might not be immediately noticeable, especially if you&#8217;re using a good e-mail client which can filter out the spam for you. However, it can be a bit shocking to visit your favorite Groups&#8217; homepage and discover it&#8217;s been overrun by spammers.</p>
<p>While Gmail is good at filtering spam, Google Groups is so bad, it&#8217;s almost as if the company isn&#8217;t even trying. There is a moderation option, which helps a bit. For example, compare the <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/django-users/topics">Django Users Group homepage</a> (which uses moderation) to the <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/ebcode/topics">EveryBlock Group</a> (which doesn&#8217;t use moderation). As you can see, there isn&#8217;t one legitimate message on the Everyblock Group homepage, while there&#8217;s hardly any spam in the Django Group.</p>
<p>Sadly, as Resig points out, moderation makes joining and posting to a Google Group much more complex for the first-time users who have come seeking help, and the tools provided for moderators aren&#8217;t nearly as slick as you&#8217;d expect from a Google product.</p>
<p>Compounding the problem, spammers have figured out that spoofing e-mail addresses works swimmingly in Google Groups. So even with moderation turned on, spam will inevitably get through. Even worse, it&#8217;ll look like it came from legitimate list members, or even the moderators. In the end, the moderators have to moderate their own e-mail addresses to truly stop Google Groups spam.</p>
<p>Resig tells Webmonkey that JQuery is still looking for a suitable replacement for Google Groups. The top contenders are <a href="http://vanillaforums.org/">Vanilla Forums</a>, which allows people to subscribe to all new posts <em>and</em> comments by e-mail, and <a href="http://stackexchange.com/">Stack Exchange</a>, which is essentially <a href="http://stackoverflow.com/">Stack Overflow</a> customized for a specific topic.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, based on Resig&#8217;s account, it looks like Google&#8217;s <a href="http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Pack_Up_Your_Data_and_Leave_Whenever_You_Want__It_s_the_New_Rule_of_the_Cloud">Data Liberation Front</a> hasn&#8217;t trained its data-export vision on Groups just yet &#8212; there is no way to export all the messages from a Group (there is, however, the ability to export a list of all members). In the JQuery Group&#8217;s case, that means some 120,000 messages in the group will have to exported by hand.</p>
<p>As for the future of Google Groups, well, the handwriting might well be on the wall. As blogger and former Yahoo engineer Andy Baio <a href="http://waxy.org/links/">points out</a>, &#8220;If you want to know which areas of big companies are being ignored, watch for spam taking over.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>See Also:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Pack_Up_Your_Data_and_Leave_Whenever_You_Want__It_s_the_New_Rule_of_the_Cloud">Pack Up Your Data and Leave Whenever You Want, It&#8217;s the New Rule of the Cloud</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/10/usenet_fix/">Google Begins Fixing Usenet Archive</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/10/usenet/">Google&#8217;s Abandoned Library of 700 Million Titles (UPDATED)</a></li>
</ul>
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